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Season Six Finale - Talking Hacktoberfest with Bekah, Dan, and Kirk

Season 6, Episode 9 | October 13, 2022

It’s the final episode of season six of the podcast and we’re bringing it to you live with Bekah, Dan, and Kirk!


Show Notes:

It’s the final episode of season six of the podcast and we’re bringing it to you live with Bekah, Dan, and Kirk! We talked a lot about Hacktoberfest with many side-tracks and segues in between.


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Transcript:

Bekah:

Hello and welcome to season six, episode nine of the Virtual Coffee Podcast. We are live because this is our season finale and we are very excited to be here with you. Virtual Coffee is a group of developers at all stages of their coding journey, and they're here on this podcast sharing their stories and what they've learned. But really it's the last episode of the season. And so it is the three of us sharing our stories and what we've learned. So, um, we'll do an intro question in a second, but do you want to, um, does anybody wanna give us an intro question? Hey, Deborah-Kaye!

Kirk:

Um, do you want to use the one from vc? Oh, that might be a spoiler for when this was done, but like today Oh, I didn't hear dance cause he wasn't in my room and I don't think he could make it. Um, so the question is, do you like sour? And if you do, what is your favorite sour food? And Bekah is already making faces so.

Bekah:

name's Bekah. I'm a technical community builder from a small town in Ohio, and sour is the worst. Like I am pretty open about different tastes, but I draw the line at sour it. If I drink like any kind of sour beer, I immediately have heartburn and sour just makes your face go like, and that means it's bad, so hard. Pass on sour. I will take bitter all day long.

Dan:

Um, alright. Hi, I am Dan. I do computer things in Cleveland and um, I don't judge. Foods based on facial expressions, You know, in general, uh, I, I, I like, I like some sour things. You know, I, I definitely like a little bit of sour in a lot of things, you know? I, like, we had tacos the night, squeeze the line lime on top of the chicken, really, really good. It doesn't make like the whole taco taste sour, you know what I mean? But it's just like that

Bekah:

Well, I like citrus that doesn't really count as sour.

Dan:

I, Okay. I mean, like, it's, it's just like a little touch of it, you know what I mean? That's, that's what I mean. But I don't like, like I, I, uh, I was saying this in, in the room, I, you know, I'll eat like a, like a sour patch kids, you know, for instance, which is like, sort of sour. It's mostly sugar anyway, but like, definitely my last choice of, of, uh, from the Halloween bucket that my kids always have full of candy somehow all year round Uh, so yeah, that's, that's my answer. I'm ambivalent. Uh, citrus, I'm a huge fan of, and I think sour is part of the citrus thing, you know? So I can't just say I don't like

Bekah:

because I love citrus.

Dan:

Fair enough. What up, Kirk?

Kirk:

I have, I have a lot you've been saying. So, Okay. So first of all, first of all, my name is Kirk. Let's just get outta the way. That's not, that's irrelevant at the moment. Um, in our room, immediately we get the discussion of does citrus count? And I said, yes, because. I'm gonna say this thing that I hate, I don't want to yuck anyone's yum. Which now also feels like a sour

Dan:

Didn't, Didn't we make a rule that you weren't allowed to say that anymore?

Kirk:

That was so long ago. You know? Um, but

Dan:

to be one of the worst phrases in the entire world.

Kirk:

but also like everything you said about why you don't like, like I, I want sour things like once a. And when I eat, I do make the faces of like a baby when they're given. Like I do all of, I can't help it. And then everyone around me just laughs at my face. Like I just fully lean into that. You know, it's like those old lemon drop candies. Like I just, I do it and then, you know, like my soul just like shutters and then it's great. Um, but it's like pepper, right? Like we're not supposed to eat. Pepper, Right? Like peppers want, like birds. Birds can't. Birds don't care about capsaicin. So plants made spicy so that mammals wouldn't eat the food. Birds lead the food cuz birds travel farther and distribute the seeds farther, Like. When they poop. But like humans or mammals we're just like, Hey, this like hurts. But I'm kind of into it and that's why we're already doing stuff that we're not supposed to be doing. Right. Like sours supposed to be like, this is probably not meant to be consumed, as is bitter. But here we are. So just lean into it. It's bad because it's good. It's bad cuz it's good. Put it on a t-shirt. That's my intro.

Bekah:

I've never heard anyone say it that way. And also I will do what I want with this stream because I have the power. If you're listening, I discovered that I can change the way things look, and this is going to be fun.

Kirk:

This is what?

Dan:

Mm. That's great.

Bekah:

So welcome everybody to this live podcast. Um, thanks for all those who are joining us live. If you have a question or if you have a topic that you want to hear us talk about, go ahead and put that in the chat and we'll do an excellent job of keeping up with it at all times,

Dan:

We promise

Bekah:

All right, why don't we get started with what's going on now at Virtual Coffee? So, so Dan is in his pumpkin jacket, so I think it's appropriate if he starts this conversation,

Dan:

Hello, my name is Daniel t Pumpkins. Uh, yes, I've, I've started referring to this as my, my pumpkin regalia. I don't know if I'm using that correctly, but, Oh, we lost Kirk. He'll be back. Oh, there he is. Uh, I don't know where he went, but he's back. Hello. Um, so,

Kirk:

internet has been

Dan:

all right, well, hopefully we don't lose you for good. You're back for now. Um, what is, oh, what is going on in Virtual Coffee right now? It's Hacktoberfest. And so we've mentioned this a couple times on, I don't know if we've mentioned it recently on the pod. We've been talking about it a lot in Virtual Coffee. Um, so Hacktoberfest is a month long sort of celebration of open source, right? And, uh, it. Originally it's, I mean, originally and still is run by a company called Digital Ocean, and they do a monthly thing every year. And, uh, the object is really, so for, uh, contributors to submit four, uh, poll requests in the month of October and have them accepted, you know, hopefully. And, uh, if you can hit that goal, then they, you know, celebrate you and usually send some swagger or something like that as well. And, um, they do a really good job of doing this and providing a lot of resources for contributors and a lot of resources for, uh, open source maintainers and things like that. And so we, uh, couple years ago decided to, uh, piggyback on that and basically help our idea two years, three years ago, was to help our members get, you know, get the, uh, the Hacktoberfest accomplished, you know, And um, so that was, yeah, that was three years ago. We did this the first time in Virtual Coffee and we had a lot of fun. And last year we had, uh, a huge number of people. Join us and contribute a whole bunch of awesome things to open source projects. And, uh, we're doing it again. And so we have add Virtual Coffee. We have a Hacktoberfest, you know, room where we have been chatting and sharing lots of like, open issues and, you know, uh, providing help and support for people. And we have the Hack Hector Coworking room, which is a special version of our coworking room. Uh, you know, uh, for people who are Hacktoberfestering and, uh, yes, that's the word. And, um, what else's going on? Heto

Bekah:

it's just "festing". You're just "festing" Hacktoberfesting.

Dan:

I'm Hacktoberfestering. And that's, Listen, who has the jacket? Okay. me, And so I make the rules and I, uh, you know, all decisions come through this jacket. uh,

Kirk:

When you invited me to this podcast, I thought I was coming up here as a creative consultant. So to hear this now was really, uh,

Dan:

Well, you know, what are you gonna do, Um,

Kirk:

executive producer.

Dan:

And so we're halfway, almost halfway through October, and, you know, we've had, I know a lot of our members have been doing some contributions. We have our traditional issue on the Virtual Coffee site that people can complete to, you know, get one, um, one of their poll requests in to start us off. Uh, we have some videos on our site for some of our Hacktoberfest, uh, things that we've done so far this month. And, uh, yeah. Did I miss anything about current event?

Bekah:

Julia put in the chat. Dan makes the rules. Bekah controls the settings, and Kirk is an unwitting victim. Again,

Dan:

Uh, Sorry, not sorry. Yeah, that's the,

Kirk:

No, No. That captures our dynamic pretty well. Julie is right. She's insightful.

Bekah:

don't know. I feel like I'm gonna push back a little bit against Dan makes the rules.

Dan:

I mean, you can push back all you want, but still I have the jacket and so what are you gonna do?

Bekah:

I, this is, this is how my criminal story starts. I will come and take the jacket, if that's where the power is. I will acquire the jacket.

Kirk:

Before you came on the stream back, I was saying like Dan in that jacket. I dunno if anybody remembers like the

Bekah:

Yes.

Kirk:

It's, you know, Stanley, I kiss. It's a similar sort of, you know, there's this garment in beauty of chaos and then he knows he's not supposed to put it on, but he does. Then he becomes this entity, you know, And then we just all have to deal with it until the jacket comes. It's like the Hulk, but for Hacktoberfest, The Hulk Tober

Dan:

I feel like Hulk

Bekah:

Hulktoberfestering?

Dan:

Loses clothes as he turns into Hulk though, you know? So

Kirk:

That's true.

Bekah:

So the anti Hulk.

Dan:

uh, no, I'm not anti hok. I love Hulk. Also shout she, She-Hulk has been really awesome too. So, Um,

Bekah:

That's exactly right. Tom Cudd

Dan:

Yes, Tom Cudd. And, um, yes. So, Oh, Tom, I saw that you followed us. Twitch, I think, I think I get emails for some reason every time somebody follows us. So if you haven't followed us on Twitch, please do. If you haven't followed our podcast, um, you can find the link on our site, Virtual Coffee.io and uh, follow us on Twitter too. Oh, slash podcast. Yeah, there's links, but yes slash podcast if you wanna go right there. Um, we have a bunch of people in the chat that we've actually talked to on the Virtual Coffee podcast, so that's kind of exciting.

Bekah:

Yeah. And some of our maintainers are here as well. And contributors for Hacktoberfest. So how's everyone's Hacktoberfest going? Kirk, are you Hacktoberfesting?

Kirk:

Um, I am Hacktoberfesting in the way, and maybe this is really relevant. I guess you've had three Hacktoberfests before. I had one where I was a maintainer and that was super cool. And I have one where I was just a contributor and that was also super cool. And this time I feel like most of what I'm doing has been mentoring and that has also been super cool. So I'm really, you know, I'm doing all the things. I'm the real, I'm getting the full experience just spread across three years and that's like totally okay. Right. Which I feel like has been the real. It's always sort of the theme of Hacktoberfest, but especially this time, you know, like people are like, What do I do? Or How come like it's, you can do whatever you're comfortable with or whatever you want. Or like, if you do wanna get outside of your comfort zone, you know, like there's a difference between stepping outside your boundaries or pushing your boundaries and like jumping far away from it. Don't, don't do that, but you know, if you can find a little way to move it, then I think it's been really good. It's been really. I'm

Bekah:

like I take the opposite approach where I'm very resistant to doing many of the things in Hacktoberfest and then like two days before I suddenly decide I'm going to do all of the things, Let's start new projects, let's resurrect projects I haven't worked on in a year. Let's mentor, let's contribute. I'm not really sure why, but I can't help it. I just, I, I can't not do the things cuz they're just, they look so exciting.

Dan:

Yeah, and I like, I, I'm kind of with that too. One of the things is, one of the things I like about this is that it, um, well, helps me, you know, having like a date that a thing needs to be done by or whatever helps me do it. And that includes like making a bunch of issues for the re for the Virtual Coffee site for instance. You know, I, I, I know in my head a bunch of things that need to be done and we can use for an help on, it always takes time and a little bit of like, mental energy to write those issues and, um, and so sometimes they just, like, I just, they get put on the back burner. But since we had Hacktoberfest coming up, um, it was a really good time to, you know, put some effort into doing that and, and creating those issues. And it's been really awesome having people, having people, um, contribute back to the site, you know? Um, and we, we always have some contributors throughout the year. Um, but it, it's, uh, I dunno, it's been, it's been fun having a bunch of different people and all that, like, shook kind of goes to show like creating, create the issues and probably people will come and help out, you know, as a maintainer, you know what I mean? It's, it's like, One of those things where, um, we now have a bunch, I mean, there, there's the, the member issue that everybody, all of our Virtual Coffee members are welcome to like do, but the features and stuff, it's, it's, you know, they need to have the, the, the options to work on, to do the work, you know? And so it's been really fun, um, kind of doing back and forth with people and, and getting some new stuff going. So I've been enjoying that a lot.

Bekah:

Tom says, It sounds like we're learning from the current Virtual Coffee book club start finishing, which I wanted to get, but I couldn't get in an audio book format and I knew if I ordered a hard copy, it would sit with all the piles of hard copies of books that I have yet to read.

Dan:

Yeah. I need to

Kirk:

have it in, That's the, that's the only way I could figure out how to read. But I did find an audiobook format and it is really good

Dan:

Nice.

Bekah:

I see. I don't have Audible or understand how to use Audible, so I don't audible things.

Dan:

What

Kirk:

Bekah.

Dan:

call

Bekah:

Audible. Well cuz you have to like sign up for Audible, Right. And then you pay money for Audible and then you have to pay money for the books too, right?

Dan:

Yeah. You get one free, uh, month, um, pretty sure. And then you can

Kirk:

Yeah, like your book token, and you can like, Hey, here's this token. Give a book. And if you don't use your token for the month, like stack up. And if you want more, more. than the token, then you,

Bekah:

pay for them.

Dan:

Yeah. But you pay for tokens. So all books cost the same amount. It's one token Anyway, this is our audible corner

Bekah:

We are not sponsored by Audible. We won't

Kirk:

If you'd like

Bekah:

I'll never be sponsored by Audible

Dan:

My gosh,

Kirk:

any of the podcast sponsors, you know, if you, if you sell mattresses or shaving stuff, or

Bekah:

Therapy. That's on all of my True Crime podcasts.

Kirk:

dog, if you're listening, if you're listening, Datadog. Listen, we're we are, we are ready. Um, yeah, no, but, um, the book just to say like, I've been, the, the process of making, and we talk about this a lot, like the process of making or ready for contributions is a dance like it's non. Um, Evergreen chat out to Nick Taylor. I love Nick Taylor's been super active in Theto channel and he in year and have their project that they've been working on, but I also really appreciate how like as soon as Nick sort of like spots something's wrong, I feel like he's like, Yeah, I should just turn this into an issue. And he just like, does it. And I feel like part of, I probably. Make things more than they need to. In my head, I feel like I need to craft like the perfect issue every time. And I feel like he's willing to just, Well, I'll get it up there. If I need to fix it, I'll fix it later. But it's there. And it's like, yeah, you can grab this if you want. Um, and it may end up being that he was, the maintainer might end up doing this thing, but it's like you gave people a chance, like try It Um, I don't know. That sort of ties into one of the aspects of having an open source repo is like that willingness to let go. Like I have to let other people sort of like be a part of this thing and they don't think like me and like I can put stuff in an issue, but at the end of the day, like they're the ones figuring it out. And you sort of have to be okay with that. And I think, uh, if you're somebody who has, I wouldn't. Issues is weird. If you have difficulties of sort of like letting go of certain things, like making it open source is a great way to realize like, Oh, I can't pour this cuz I'll like, I'll stress myself out. You sort have to kind of set a tree and let it be a community thing, an organic thing. And I, I really like seeing like the virtual I website. Like I really say, Oh yeah, a bunch of people have like helped make this what it is and it's really cool.

Dan:

It is really cool

Bekah:

I think, you know, the idea of letting it go and putting it out there is a really good one. Because I think too, like sometimes as a maintainer or somebody who's been working on a project, you might get stuck on an idea and somebody might come along. They might have a better idea or they might have a different approach. And I think that one of the fun things is like keeping an open mind about how, how people will understand the project and taking their feedback and building in a process to have that feedback because it's not. Just about helping and supporting contributors. I think it's about learning as a maintainer too, and that's been one of my favorite parts. I actually think that my favorite part of Hacktoberfest for the last three years has been being a maintainer and being able to interact with others and the all of our contributors, to learn from them and to hear what they have to say about things. And that was an experience the first year. I know that I didn't, I didn't realize how much I would learn from being a maintainer.

Kirk:

Yeah. Um. I think that's a great way to phrase it. Maybe like entice people if you're considering like, Oh, like a lot of people with the framing is like, Oh, I don't know enough to be a maintainer. Right? I'm like, But if you have an idea and you wanna see it to a fruition, the best way to learn about it might be to like invite other people to help you. And you just, just get that for free. Like you get, get. And you get, people are gonna teach you stuff and you get to finish the thing you wanted to work on. Like, it's all, it's all upsides here. Um, and it's weird where people work on my project like, Hey, thanks for letting me work on this. I'm like, You just, I didn't know how to do that. That's why I made the issue, you know, this is great. Now I do and it's done. I wish I could do this for every aspect of my life. Like my choice and other obligations, you know, it's like, or it just all the times where it's like, I don't know how to do this thing and like doing it by myself feels like a real struggle. Um, and we talk sometimes on the slack about like, um, neurodiversity and just like people having different mode and the things we have to do sometimes just to figure things out. And yeah, sometimes the answer is, Oh, I just, I just need some help on. Um, an open source feels a lot like that. I wanna do this thing. I need some help, and then they help me. Bekah, no one noticed that your camera went on, I promise, except

Bekah:

It left for a while. This keeps happening. I did a live stream before this and I couldn't give my camera to work, and then midway in the middle of a sentence, Mike, I just totally disconnected. It was, it was awesome.

Dan:

Uh, Alright.

Kirk:

It started, we had this, we were talking about like old tech and then we, it just became like weird UIs and then just like all the weird quirks of technology that we have to deal with. And then I'm like, Okay, cool. Now that we've just been dunking on technology for the last 10 minutes, everyone here who works in this industry can get back to talking about it. Um, Sometimes, but I guess, I don't know. It's because we like the stuff that we also notice the stuff and we talk about it.

Bekah:

I always, um, love it when people in the wild. Make a comment to me about technology. They're like, Oh, technology, You know? I'm like, Oh, yeah, I know.

Dan:

Yeah, no, I, I said in the, in the chat when we were talking during that discussion, there's nobody that hates computers more than developers. like, like it took my my wife a while to really. And that, you know, but now she's like, you know, she'll have like her, her grandma ask if I could like help her. I mean, I'm fine to help her, but like, she's like, Oh, he, he does computer stuff. He loves computers. And she's like, No, he, he hates computers. I'm like, I'm like, I really do.

Bekah:

I had a friend ask me to help with her printer, and I was like, Oh, no, I don't. I don't do printers. I, I, when my printer doesn't work, I just buy a new one, because that's easier than trying to fix existing printers.

Dan:

I worked it at, um, college. Uh, and you know, so the job is mostly just like going around to professor's offices and fixing their stuff and Yeah, we had a rule like printers, you only spend like five minutes trying to fix whatever it is, and then you throw it out and by and like give them a new one. It's like they're, they're always just like, printers are nightmare. They always have been. They still are. They, I don't know why they still are, but they definitely are.

Bekah:

I don't understand. I can buy a printer and it works like perfectly for 30 days and then it like hits that mark and it just dies. It doesn't do any of the things that it did before. I feel like it's making a decision to not work.

Kirk:

If you're willing to indulge in conspiracy theories, there's a perfectly valid explanation,

Bekah:

I am always here for the conspiracy theories.

Kirk:

Um, but I was gonna say this conversation, and it feels like similar ones we've been having for a while. Just about like, and we said how vast this like tech is as a word means, I don't even know what it means. Like it's just, there's so much and it, it's weird because we say things like software developer and like those are two words. Yes. I don't know what those mean. And they have very little to do with what my job is. Um, and then like words like full stack or front end or backend, it's like that's still so incredibly vague as to be almost ultimately useless. Like it doesn't, I don't know what you do when you say that at all. I could guess and I would probably be

Dan:

Yeah, we, we actually spent our entire hour today Virtual Coffee, talking about that exact thing. Mostly cuz I said in my intro that I don't like the word full stack. And when I was talking about myself, you know, and like, I don't feel like it's very descriptive for what I do. And then that started a whole, a whole thing but

Bekah:

instead of saying full stack, you just say you do things with computers.

Dan:

Yeah. At

Bekah:

much, much better.

Dan:

at uh, yeah. Yeah, at coffee. I ended up with, uh, I do Type E. Type E. So that's

Kirk:

Like explain it like I'm five the subreddit. It's like what a computer format, like I do type type, and then you just see what. Recently I've been saying, I've been like very specific. It's like, Oh, I write JavaScript sometimes in type script, sometimes in Python, sometimes and SQL sometimes. And sometimes I'm clicking buttons in, and that's that's what I do right now. That will probably change for six months or something.

Bekah:

I was, uh, at the hospital with one of my kids. They had to get a test, and the hospital intake person asked, she was like, Well, what do you do? And in my mind what, what she really wanted was just like a job title so she could put it down on the form. Right. And I was like, but she said, What do you do? And so I was panicked because I'm like, how do I explain what I do? I do things with the computer and code and community and education and, and I like went on this long tangent about what I did. I was like, Oh, my title, it's technical community. It was like, really, really, um, I, I don't think that she was ready for that at five 30 in the morning on a Saturday.

Dan:

Yeah, it's, yeah, I can, I can feel that whole thing happening every time. Uh, somebody asks me and or every time I have to do an intro Virtual Coffee, it's like, I'm like, Well, do I do the half hour discussion version or do I just say I do computer things? Yeah. Uh, Jesse was saying, Yeah, if the, if you talk to somebody in that are in tech, then you'd be more, more descriptive. And if it's somebody that doesn't know anything, you say, I build websites and apps, and that's, that's mostly what I do too. Yeah. So

Bekah:

I don't do any. I don't do that though,

Dan:

Well, right now, I mean, you know, Yeah. It's, it's a little. but you have a job title right? That you

Bekah:

Yeah, that does make it much difference. Well, she didn't ask me my job title. She said, What do you do? Which to me is like, now I have to tell a story of the thing that I do.

Kirk:

Like, who are you like as a person? And yeah, I will write it in this form. There's a section for it.

Bekah:

what It felt like she wanted my bio

Dan:

So, uh

Kirk:

Yeah. I mean,

Dan:

Go ahead, Kirk.

Kirk:

well, Dan, like you, and then if I think of like how Bekah would describe it role, if I think of how it, there's the overlap, like there's overlaps, but I don't, I make an app for people who. Apps and websites, you know, so like, it's a very, it's very similar, but I don't know, just, Oh yeah, it's, I've been trying to like sneak the word meta into like, all aspects of my life cuz it just feels cooler if you can like, oh, like a meta way.

Dan:

Sponsored beta.

Kirk:

Um, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I mean, If they're tired of react and they want something else that's like super cool, just saying, give a whole

Dan:

Next time we, next time we talk, Kirk's gonna show up with like the NASCAR outfit and the hat, you know, and the, like the jersey and stuff. Except it's all just gonna say me over place.

Kirk:

I cannot describe to you how foreign the entire concept of NASCAR is to every aspect of. But it looks cool. Um, but yeah, but just to say, I. Hacktoberfest also, I feel like did that in a big way of sometimes, especially online spaces, you feel, what's that word? It feels like everyone around you sort of like doing the same thing or you get that feeling like everyone's doing the same thing and then you start comparing yourself to everyone else cuz you're like, Ah, everyone knows about like, React. What I know about reactor, like everyone knows about kit's, like why? I know about kit. Like these things. There's certain things that we just talk about more and you start like comparing yourself to other people. Oh, everyone knows about aws. Why aws? And Hacktoberfest was like a real like good reminder that there's a lot going on here. You can only know like 1% of 1%, like the very thin slice. You probably like what you have more in common of people is what you don't know than what you know. So when it comes to open source, like you're going to feel like a beginner in some things and you're going better in other things, and like that's everyone's doing that all at the same time and you really shouldn't. really shouldn't like compare yourself to others. They have a whole life of experiences that have led to like where they are and what they feel good at. And if you actually ask them, they probably feel like you. They probably, I also do not know what I'm doing and I also feel like everybody else online knows more than me. And I also feel. You know, I'm just, How did Julia's daughter describe it as staring at the screen for a couple minutes and hitting control, said 75 times. That is how I feel all that time, that is my job. Um, but yeah, hack to profess is a really good reminder of that in a way that doesn't feel like destructive, but like feels really healthy. You know, like we're all trying to figure it. It's like, it's like for one, Everyone tries to figure something out and like we all accept that we're trying to figure it out, and that's great.

Dan:

Yeah, totally. And like the. This is just, we talk about this every, every time we talk about Hacktoberfest, but like there's a lot of, um, I don't know, there's a lot of like social things that go around with contrary to open source, uh, projects too. And that, that, like, that is something that causes anxiety for me, you know? Uh, especially, especially when I hadn't really done much contra, you know, open source contributing before I worked as a developer for a long time before I ever, you know, did any open source stuff. And that's one of the things that we try to push here too, like with our, with our thing is not just like, oh, writing code or whatever, but how to, how to like, engage in a community, an open source community, whether it's a big one or a small one. And you know, how to, how to navigate that without feeling, I mean, I suppose you're always gonna feel nervous the first time you do something, but hopefully we can, you know, help you kind of get, go along and, and, uh, and do it. And so that's, that's one of our other. One of, one of the other things that we, we try to like concentrate on is, is just, uh, helping people kind of start that journey. You know? Cause once, once you get a couple under your belt, it becomes like, it opens your eyes to all the things you can do, and everything else becomes a little more possible. If, if you've done it a couple times, you know, maybe in a controlled environment like adverse coffee.

Bekah:

Well, it's nice too that we have maintainers who are members because they might be maintaining a project for fun, for Hacktoberfest to help people get in, or they might be maintaining a larger project for work. But I think that when you see other people who you know in those larger projects, let's say, and you have some experience doing the things that we do at Virtual Coffee, then it helps to like create that path to being able to take on things that maybe you would've been too scared of before, or, you know, to go outside of Virtual Coffee to do the things. And I think that, you know, decreasing those barriers to entry, providing support and mentorship and that community excitement around things goes a long way to improving the experience of everybody who's involved in open source contribu.

Kirk:

Yeah, it reminds me not to get to mad enough, but, um, I've been like re binging. I've been binging like all the episodes of the podcast and I, was listening to one with Julia. Um, Is one, as I told, it's, it's the most chaotic episode. It's just like the first 20 minutes is so off the rails. It's balloon Dan, which is my, one of my favorite Dans. Um, you know, but you all were talking about like teaching and concept of teaching what feels good about teaching, Right? And like the, that moment where you helped somebody else. Truly gain insight. Right? Not just like you told them something, they're like, Yeah, okay. But like, you like explain something or you show them something or you help them and they like, they like say like, I get it in like this real moment of like pride and joy and just like self-validation. That feels really good. You know? That feels like a. It almost like, I almost wanna say it's like an almost fundamental human experience. Like you feel it like when you're with your kids or with family or like, you know, like young people where it's like, I helped you figure out a thing and I can like watch that happen. Um, so I feel like Hector Profess also has a lot of those moments where like, you're on either side of it, but it's like, we both did this and now there's like a real. Something just got like better, you know, like, this person learned something, like I helped them. Um, I love that feeling, you know, like, I would, I'd do that all day or I wanna do that all day. Um, so that, I think that's like my, I love, like it's, it's a real. A lot of like Hector Effects for me is like really like vicarious. Like I can't always like jump into stuff, but if I'm just hanging out the Slack it like, Hey, this person helped this person figure this out. They're like, Hey, I didn't know get stuff. Someone helped me. This is like, I could just, I'm just, This is like. This is my television. I don't know. This is like my, I can't think of like a thing that I like more than just like watching people go, Oh, I figured this thing out. And then like the double up like, Oh, someone else helped me figure this thing out. Um, that feels, that feels like all of it really. And like everything we do from, you know, the. The podcast or like the videos or even having like the, the one big pairing thing or doing stuff together or like the website, it gets all, seemed like we're all funneling towards making that moment like super achievable for people. Right? Cause like that's the thing where you go like, Oh, actually I'm not like worse than everybody else. Oh, actually I think I do like this, this work and this field that I've chosen to do. You know, I do feel like I belong in this space. Like it's those moments to make this. um, we talked about a little bit in VC today of like, you know, so much, uh, so much for a lot of people of the developer experience, especially when it get, it's like just developing alone, just like figuring it out by yourself. It's just like you, you're online and it's all by yourself, and there's nothing like wrong with that, but it also feels really good when you can do stuff with other people. And I feel like sometimes that's the difference between, yeah, I want to keep going at this, or, Yeah, I don't, It's not like you couldn't have done it or you're not capable, but. Things are better sometimes if there's other people to work on. Like it's just, I'm trying to think of what if football, not saying soccer can't make me, which is like a one on one sport, same 90 minutes, same field, but just one person. And that's kind of how it feels when you're working on a problem by yourself. Sometimes. Just like, this is so much I can't finish. Um, but if like 10 other people, then it feels. The football that is not, not soccer for Olympics football.

Dan:

I, like that analogy. I do, uh, I'm getting distracted cause like Bekah seems like she really has something to say, or is, maybe there's an animal loose in her room. I'm not sure. But, uh, if you're listening to this later, uh, Bekah is just like losing her mind. Uh, while Kirk is talking,

Bekah:

It's, I'm, I'm struggling because I'm really tired and I didn't get a cup of coffee before this. And like, I'm, I'm definitely into this conversation and I'm just having a hard time with, um, dealing with the physical symptoms of tiredness. sorry. sorry. I might go get a cup of coffee.

Dan:

Oh man.

Bekah:

well also, this is, I had a meeting today and then I live streamed and this is the second livestream. And I, I am sorry that I, this is the third, third person people interaction that I've done of the day because you got, they had me at my best in the first meeting. Um, now I'm whatever this two o'clock back.

Kirk:

Dan, she give her the jacket she needs

Dan:

Hmm. Pass

Kirk:

You have Maybe think about it for more than two seconds,

Dan:

um, pass.

Bekah:

Tom Cud has given me permission to go get coffee, so that's what I'm going to do so you can talk and I will mute and go get my coffee and then I will be fine.

Dan:

Okay. This is. That's fine.

Kirk:

Ooh, Julia Hollywood. So Julie just mentioned Hollywood Squares in a chat and. I feel like I've spent the last two years not seeing the parallels between every Zoom meeting and Hollywood squares, and it's weird that there hasn't been like more of an intersection between those two concepts, but we can explore that at another time.

Dan:

Um, alright, well, Bekah is gone. So, uh, Kirk would, uh,

Kirk:

I'm back

Dan:

no, you're, you're, you're Kirk. Should we just talk about type script? type script. Tuesday's takeover

Kirk:

We're just,

Dan:

Uh,

Kirk:

um, I mean, we can talk about script in the, in the frame of reference of October. Sort of like a manifestation of everything we've been talking about. Right. You and I have been sort of learning how to use TypeScript together in a code base, and we've been working on it. Bekah really

Dan:

Yeah. Uh, kinda a wild Jesse sighting

Kirk:

This reminds me there was a time, See, I feel like in the early days of Virtual Coffee eons ago, I feel like we did not go one VC meeting without Bekah being like, Ashton Kucher punked by at least one of her kids. And there was a day where you locked your door, you're like, I've locked the door. They can't come in. And then they opened the window and you could just hear the sounds of children spilling in through the windows.

Bekah:

my, my bedroom has doors to it, but they don't go anywhere. They open up and there's like a railing there, so you can't get through. And so they climbed up the house. They pushed like a play set and climbed a story up, opened the door and came into the bedroom because I locked them out.

Kirk:

It's called Manifesting your

Bekah:

Yesterday I had a meeting and my six year old came in to tell me during the meeting that my eight year old was twerking at her.

Dan:

Oh God, That is amazing. that the new, Is that the new? My sister's staring at me. For the modern day.

Bekah:

I It must be. It must be. Yeah. I hate when people to at me too. Um.

Kirk:

With me is fine, but acne is unaccept.

Bekah:

I, So I'll take you on a tangent. I might have told this story before, but never on a recording. When I was in college, I went to Prague for spring break with like the business group, and we went to this dance club and this guy was tickling my armpit while I was dancing. And I was like, Is this some kinda thing that do in Prague? And I don't know who was at Virtual Coffee when I told the story. And they're like, This is, that is definitely not something that, that they do in Prague. That guy was just really weird. Now you all know about it too.

Kirk:

I'm just, I don't know what I thought you were gonna say, but that that wasn't it particularly marked. It wasn't

Bekah:

I I don't even know how to respond to that. I still don't know. And this is like many years later. How do you respond to someone tickling your armpit on the dance floor? Go ahead and throw that in the chat.

Kirk:

that's an interest question. Um, maybe when he was six and his was eight, they

Dan:

That's a good question. Were you twerking at him in

Bekah:

I was most assuredly not twerking at him.

Dan:

I mean yeah, there's different kind. I mean, there, there's like twerking at somebody where you want them to dance with you and there's twerking at somebody where you're trying to bother them. Right. And so

Bekah:

don't, I don't know how to twerk. Okay.

Dan:

Well, obviously you have somebody in your house that could teach you, so

Kirk:

it feels like you're saying that of like, Like the, the sort of like father kid moment. Well, there's different types,

Dan:

That's right.

Kirk:

ofac,

Dan:

Right?

Kirk:

there's.

Dan:

Yeah. Invitingly, right. That's when you tickle their own bits.

Bekah:

You should just never tickle someone's armpits. I'm a firm believer in not tickling armpits,

Dan:

Uh,

Bekah:

hopefully nobody is tickling your proverbial armpits on your Hacktoberfest repository.

Dan:

there she is. The master of.

Kirk:

But also like your real, like not, it doesn't, you know, metaphorically or not? Probably, probably. No, I don't think you need to like put it in a code conduct, but. Maybe after that guy went to that, that dance place in Prague, they put it on their code of. con on the door. Like, you know, no like must wear shirt, no armpit, tickling, you know, Don't, Proverbial is an excellent band name. Tom. You are right. Um, I, think when we decided to do this, this one live. Thoroughly did not anticipate the fact that we would have to talk while reading chat, and as everyone here knows, that is very difficult for us.

Dan:

I, Uh, I mean, yeah, I, I, you know, there's been a couple comments in the, in the chat about Yes, you shouldn't just, just in general life rule, don't take a strangers aren't bits, you know, you want them. Any armpit, tickling to be consensual. All right, hold on. There's a delivery person walking in right now,

Kirk:

That's perfect.

Dan:

That was really well timed. cool, well, got my package delivered. Uh, well, hopefully he walked out with the knowledge, uh, you know, the wisdom to not tickle the people's armpits that, um, haven't given prior consent.

Bekah:

Can we need, Listen, we need a sticker in the Virtual Coffee store, that that talks about that.

Dan:

uh, if somebody makes that sticker, I will put it on the store. Uh, I promise. Um,

Bekah:

need a structured YOLO sticker. We're about to run a contest or something to get those in there. Ooh. Make an issue for arm tickling. I really enjoy derailing the conversation.

Dan:

Uh, yes. No, Kirk, Kirk said, uh, yes. Imagining the delivery person walking in, seeing my jacket and talking about arm tickling, uh, in a stream. Um, yeah, no, I imagine that that gentleman will be sharing that story when he gets back from a shift.

Kirk:

I'm gonna say, so I mean, you're probably like, you don't even place on like the weirdest events that have happened while he's delivering things. Right? Like so, you know, I always like to remind myself of that sometimes whenever I'm like, Oh, was that. Weird or awkward. I'm like, it doesn't even rank on the things happening in the world. Bekah got armpit-tickled in real life in.

Bekah:

Real armpit tickled.

Dan:

uh,

Bekah:

I used my segue and then nobody followed up.

Kirk:

It, it didn't take, you know, like some, when you have like a lighter and you do the first flick and like, it just does like the,

Bekah:

hard to have two armpit tickling segues though.

Kirk:

anyone can do it. It's,

Dan:

I have faith

Bekah:

speaking of armpit tickling, what have been your uncomfortable moments in your Hacktoberfest history.

Kirk:

Oh.

Dan:

you know, actually that's a, that's, Hey, Bekah, that's a really good question and, uh, a wonderful segue. Thank you. Um, this is actually something I was gonna talk about, uh, before you left to get a cup of coffee in the middle of our stream, uh, was, was, Okay. Well, that's fair. Uh, is, um, you said uncomfortable moments, eh, And there, there are some like, so. We were talking about, um, the positive sides of, you know, becoming a maintainer and, and, and open sourcing your project and doing that things. And just from a, from a maintainer standpoint, there are like, you know, it, it can be hard too, you know, it can be, uh, like difficult to navigate sometimes. Uh, and again, here's like, the social issues are more of problem than like the technology or code parts of it. You know what I mean? Uh, is how to, um, navigate some of that stuff. Uh, and, and like, as a person who is not always the best, I don't know, uh, like I I, I, uh, I don't know my reactions to things are, you know, you know, usually sometimes like my erections come out, like, you know, you have a gut reaction to something and then you like realize that, oh, okay, let's, you know, think about this for a little bit. And, you know, it took me a while to figure out that I needed to pause before I, you know, before I let any gut reactions like come through or whatever and think through some things and, you know, help communicate with that. Um, But it's like, I think the biggest part of that is, is communication. All right. I'm sorry, I glanced at the chat in us. Just like Bekah, you are the one that was trying to segue us back over here and, uh, I feel like, you know, you're not, you're not

Bekah:

I didn't say anything. It was

Dan:

yes, you were giggling and chatting and uh, you know, um, it's just sometimes hard to, hard to concentrate. But, uh, you know, I don't really have any idea what I was saying.

Bekah:

Um, responding to people in communication and taking a step back before going with your gut feeling, See?

Dan:

yes, exactly. So anyway, communication skills important, uh, but it is a very good place to practice those and get better. I've be, I have become a much better, I mean, certainly a much better open source maintainer, uh, since the first time I did it was when we started this thing three years ago. Um, and. You know, over the last three years have have like learned a ton, you know, and I'm, I feel much better about doing it now than I looking back, than I did. You know, I felt confident about it going into it in the first place. But that's where you, you just like, it's just one of those things where the only way to really get good at it is to do it. And that's why, that, that's just why I'm, I'm always like behind Kirk, like what Kirk was saying was, you know, it's a great time to, like, this is a great time to do it because we have, like, all of our resources are pointing towards that. I mean, not our, like researchers on our site, but all of Virtual Coffee right now is doing Hacktoberfest stuff, you know what I mean? And we have a ton of, um, support for maintainers and stuff as well. Um, and those, those that's, uh, that support exists all, all year round. You know, if you're thinking about open source project, doesn't have to be right now, obviously. Um, but it's a good time to do it and you'll have. Probably have instantly have people that wanna contribute if you have a project that's open source during heta profess. Um, so I dunno, that's, that's my little bit is, uh, you

Bekah:

My goal this year is to

Dan:

in and do it.

Bekah:

the momentum beyond Hacktoberfest, right? Like, to continue to do open source projects and to work with other people at Virtual Coffee or, you know, outside of our community and keep moving these things that I'm really excited about forward. And I think that, you know, hopefully we can build some of that accountab some of that accountability into Virtual Coffee for other maintainers who want that support and contributors beyond Virtual Coffees, uh, VCHI Virtual Coffee Hacktoberfest Initiative. Um, and, and just keep going with it because I think it is a really great way to learn more about how to contribute, how to be a maintain. To work on that communication because communication can be really hard. And so, you know, this is, this is the start of it, and we're gonna keep going.

Kirk:

We call VCHI VCHI also because it's. It's a reference to the word chai as like another coffee tie.

Bekah:

Yep.

Dan:

I don't.

Bekah:

Mm-hmm. That's exactly what were thinking.

Kirk:

Great. That's a great idea. We were super smart for thinking about that. Um, but also yes, to everything that, that you said, like sustain. I don't know. I, I think I spend a lot of time thinking about like sustainability. Um, in many ways I feel like a lot of the things in my life, like I can get this like big burst of energy and do a flurry of activity and then, but then all that energy like goes away and then I'm like, Oh no, what do I do now? That thing I used to do, all this stuff is gone. And you know, like that sort of. A lot of the stuff we've been talking about in this community just in general and reading like about like having to not rely on like inspiration slash motivation and how to like turn things into processes and routines that either like provide you what you need to make things sustained or like just lowering the barrier on yourself for what you have to put into things to get like the outcomes that you want. So Yeah, I feel like that's a really. I don't know. That feels like a really good goal and I should probably do the same thing. Um, yeah. And you know, if we also, if Segway wants to sponsor, I don't, do they still make those

Bekah:

Yeah, I saw people like riding around them in a segue pack in Pittsburgh.

Kirk:

collective.

Bekah:

flock,

Kirk:

A herd

Bekah:

of.

Kirk:

It's like when Dan was in that, um, that group of his, when he was a kid, The kids of. Bad town, I know that's their name,

Dan:

Yeah, that's it. What did you say it was?

Kirk:

I've been, Every time I mention, I think this is like the fifth time, and every time I try and say a new name, it's like Benedict, like you can't say his real name. You have to say like Bumblebee pumpkin patch. Like you, there's no, Why would you, you know, like the whole point. Anyway, it's fine. Dan was? in a scooter

Dan:

It was not a scooter gang at that point. I'm going to, I'm not gonna, Yes. End that. I've, I don't ride scooters. I am not interested in that. It's a mountain bike gang called the Sugar Hill Pumpkin patch Crew. I dunno, trying to remember what you said. Uh, but we were awesome. So, you know, what are you gonna do? Yes. Rebecca says mountain bike for the win. Yes.

Kirk:

No, maybe Bekah was right about getting more coffee. I saw MTV and I was like, Major trifecta baseball. I could not put that together. Um, okay, now the chat's, just talking about bikes, and Jesse

Dan:

Jesse, how dare you.

Kirk:

so just low

Dan:

Jesse says, Bikes are just low tech scooters. Right? And I did that say, how dare you, sir.

Kirk:

I are just overly engineered, unicycles, you know, like

Bekah:

Yeah. It's interesting how bikes are so much like open source contributions, right? Like you gotta learn how to get on the bike, learn how to ride the bike, and how to maintain momentum. And that's what we're trying to do here. come on. It wasn't too bad.

Dan:

I wish I had, I wish I had my soundboard here. Yes, I would've air horned that one. That one was awesome.

Kirk:

Just Bekah segues. We would like a very specific sound. Um,

Dan:

just like a

Kirk:

I wonder.

Dan:

sound or something, you know?

Bekah:

I'm here

Kirk:

Is it. possible to do like an entire presentation of like only segue, I guess you can't be only segue, right? Because like a segue is like a conjunction. So like you, you need things

Dan:

But you could write an awesome segue between each slide or something if you're doing a talk, if that's what we're talking about, you know,

Bekah:

I think you, I, I would argue that you only need to start with one thing and then the entire rest of the presentation could be rolling. Segues

Kirk:

Right, because a segue can segue from one segue to another

Dan:

of rolling segues,

Kirk:

functional

Dan:

functional programming. yeah, I segues. Make me think of the, um, white and nerdy weird L music video, which is amazing if

Bekah:

my eight year old listens to that like every single day. Julia,

Kirk:

That's where you tour.

Bekah:

great. Julia's got some really good extensions here. It's easy to buy a bike, but you need someone to help you learn how to maintain it. Absolutely right. It's easier to keep up the routine maintenance and get the most out of your bike investment if you have other cyclists around to mentor you and ride with you. This is great. There's an entire blog post right here in the chat. Somebody just needs to put it together.

Kirk:

And then you can tie in that phrase to tech people say sometimes like shedding and it all.

Dan:

We're bike shedding, we're bike shedding the sway.

Kirk:

Yeah,

Bekah:

I don't know what

Dan:

just like, uh, dog fooding and, um,

Kirk:

See, I specifically didn't say that

Dan:

Uh, shotgun foot, foot gunning, cat treating. And, um,

Kirk:

No, no. But my is the real thing. It's a real phrase that people actually say. It is far more tolerable than, than

Dan:

curious to know why it's bike shed and not like some other kind of shed. So bike shedding, for those of you who don't know, is in computer. When, when you're talking about it with development, it's like spending all of your time and resources on this thing that's sitting on the side instead of your house, right? Like, so, like in the metaphor, your house is like the actual app or whatever you're working on, and the bike shed is just this like little thing on the side and you're, you know, you're making your bike shed really fancy, but not working on your house. Like that's the, that's the, I don't use the term, but that's what the term means. Uh, but like, why bike shed and not, you know, but like, is a bike shed a thing? Do people have, I suppose they probably do somewhere. I dunno, But like, yeah, I'm just saying of all the things to choose for that metaphor, why a bike shed is my question.

Bekah:

Because

Dan:

Speaking of bike, shes,

Bekah:

a bike gang

Dan:

uh, Oh yeah. Yak, shaving. I don't remember what that one means.

Bekah:

use that out loud. That's, This

Dan:

Oh, is, is that, uh, am I, am I getting code of conducted All, All,

Kirk:

I. My next high tour first project will be a bot that just takes like random MO and then one of these things and just puts it together and then just makes up some sort of nonsense definitions. It's like these are All the tech terms. I put them all in this bot, you know?

Dan:

I love that

Kirk:

What was that one you said earlier? Cat feeding.

Dan:

cat treating. I think she said

Bekah:

Yes, that's what I said.

Kirk:

Uh, we, that'll be my next project. Um, I feel like we can, slowly but surely, I feel like we have managed to talk a little bit about OSS and open source. And I feel like for those of you listening and watching, if you take anything away from this, it is that, um, we really enjoy this time. Um, and in many ways Hacktoberfest is the thing that like. Really solidified a lot of parts of Virtual Coffee. It was how the maintainers sort of like became the maintainers. Um, it was how we like normalized a ton of things. It was how we like set the direction for a ton of things. It was how I think a lot of us made the decision to. This wasn't like, this was like, Oh, this is VC is like a thing that we wanna keep doing and like, it, it exists as like a space that can do a lot of good, you know, in addition to like the personal good was doing for us, but just like, just like a really good thing to be like kept and maintained. So we, we care about it a lot and we're really excited that it's still happening. We're still sort of feeling the way we felt about it at the beginning, um, because at the end of the day, Hacktoberfest really isn't about the like individual projects we're working on. It's about the collaboration with other people. And the reason I managed to get through of that is explicitly did not read whatever posted.

Dan:

I'm proud of you. It's impressive.

Bekah:

You did an excellent job, Kirk. You did a much better job than Dan and I normally do on the podcast wrapping things up. So I think it's probably a good time to wrap up and think about what Kirk said.

Dan:

I always think about what Kirk said. I spend most of my

Kirk:

I never think about

Dan:

about what Kirk says. Um, Yes, I know. I mean, I just also like to add, I mean, thank you to everybody that, uh, It's here today, and thank you to everybody who's been contributing to Hacktoberfest and listen to our podcast and hanging out in Virtual Coffee. Um, like Kirk said, this is like, I mean, this is my favorite time of the year, uh, for, for Virtual Coffee stuff. The Hacktoberfest stuff is really exciting for me. I love open source stuff in general. I'm gonna say stuff a few more times in this sentence, uh, and then I'll wrap it up. Uh, but I don't know, it's, it's just a good time and, um, yeah, has, has a special place in my heart too, because the reasons Kirk said, uh, uh, sort of the genesis of a lot of the things that are actually happening in Virtual Coffee now. Um, and it's, uh,

Bekah:

the podcast.

Dan:

a good, including the podcast and the website itself didn't exist. We, I made it so that we could have that issue, um, to have people add themselves as members. And so, uh, like a lot of stuff, a lot of stuff came out from, from, from Hacktoberfest. V1. V1. So

Bekah:

we are grateful for everyone here and for this Hacktoberfest season.

Dan:

Alright, well then I think with that we'll wrap up. Uh, thank you again everybody for coming. Uh, follow us on, you know, the, all the things we're VirtualCoffeeIO, you know, most places. So if you haven't yet, uh, you know, follow, subscribe, whatever you do in whatever app that exist in the world. And here I am, I am at the end of my sentence and I don't know how to wrap up. So somebody finish this thing and then I'll hit end

Bekah:

Thanks for being here, friends.

Kirk:

Bye.

Dan:

everybody. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Virtual Coffee Podcast. This episode was produced by Dan Ott and Bekah Hawrot Weigel. If you have questions or comments you can hit us up on Twitter at VirtualCoffeeIO, or email us at podcast@virtualcoffee.io. You can find the show notes, sign up for the newsletter, check out any of our other resources on our website VirtualCoffee.io. If you're interested in sponsoring virtual coffee you can find out more information on our website at VirtualCoffee.io/sponsorship. Please subscribe to our podcast and be sure to leave us a review. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next week!


The Virtual Coffee Podcast is produced by Dan Ott and Bekah Hawrot Weigel and edited by Dan Ott.