Reda - From Maritime Engineer to Self-Taught Front-End Developer

Show Notes:

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Transcript:

Bekah: 00:06

Hello and welcome to season eight, episode five of the Virtual Coffee Podcast. I'm Bekah, and this is a podcast that features members of the Virtual Coffee community. Virtual Coffee is an intimate community of people at all stages of their tech journey, and they're here on this podcast sharing their stories and what they've learned, and we are here to share it with you. Here with me today is my co-host, Dan.

Dan: 00:32

Yo. What up Beck? How's it going?

Bekah: 00:35

It is going fantastic. How's it going with you?

Dan: 00:39

It's going great. We have another great episode for y'all. We are sitting down with Reda, uh, Redas, a front-end developer from Morocco. And um, we had a really great talk time talking to him. He actually started his career in marine mechanics, uh, which is pretty interesting. Um, and during the pandemic, uh, decided to switch tracks into, um, you know, web development and development in general. Um, and it was a really good time, uh, sitting, talking with him. We, we learned a lot about his story and I dunno, he's a very interesting guy.

Bekah: 01:09

Yeah, it was really fascinating to hear like he had completed all of the stuff that he needed for the marine mechanics degree. So, and, and then after completing that, decided to go into coding and did the whole self, self-taught route and what that journey was like for him and finding a job. You know, I think that, uh, it's really fascinating to see that career pivot happening right at the pandemic and then that journey to find the first job.

Dan: 01:39

Yeah, totally. Uh, and he's, he's one of the fewer people I've talked to recently who is self-taught, but, um, didn't go the bootcamp route, right? He, he followed free CODEcamp and a lot of just self-guided things. Um, And I don't know it, it is really great hearing from somebody who kind of did the self-driving, you know, education route and.

Bekah: 02:02

Yeah, the importance of community as part of that, right? Like he talked a lot about Virtual Coffee being a part of that free code camp. Lab, lab and all of the ups and downs that you have as a self-taught learner and how important it's to have community as part of that. So I felt like this really captured the essence of Virtual Coffee and what we're trying to do here.

Dan: 02:21

Absolutely

Bekah: 02:23

We start every episode of the podcast, like we start every Virtual Coffee. We introduce ourselves with our name, where we're from, what we do, and a random check-in question. We hope you enjoy this episode. Our random check-in question today is, what is your third space? So the space where you feel like you belong something that's not home or school. give you a second to think about that while I do my intro. Uh, my name is Bekah. I am developer experience lead at Open Source. I'm from a small town in Ohio, and my third space, I feel like the woods is a good place. It's like the woods are the library because those have always been places that I've loved since I was a kid, and I could just go like, Hike or explore or sit and read a book for hours, and those have always been like very comforting spaces for me.

Dan: 03:26

Nice. Yeah. Um, hi, I'm Dan. I do front end development or whatever, full stack development. I don't know, I, I made a decision earlier to just say I do full stack, even though I don't like that phrase, but it is, uh, more accurate to what I do. So anyway, uh, oh, uh, Cleveland area and, um, yeah, I mean, I, I'd say the woods in general as well. Uh, maybe specifically like we have a, a, my family has a cabin out in Pennsylvania, But I'm really comfortable in any, any, anywhere I have a backpack on and, you know, maybe my pet, my tent with me. Um, the woods. The woods are good. Uh, for like all the reasons you said, honestly. And exploring especially is one of my, one of my favorite things to do. so yeah. And, uh, yeah, so introducing our guest, uh, Reda, go ahead.

Reda: 04:13

I am Reda. I am a front-end developer based in Morocco. And, uh, my third place is, I think I'll go with the, the sea. Uh, back in college, uh, I used to have this coffee shop, it's like in front of the, of the, of the beach to be more accurate and I used to hang out there a lot. Yeah.

Bekah: 04:34

That sounds awesome. I love it. Well, thanks so much Reda for being here with us today. We're happy to have you on the pa, the podcast. I like went Midwestern, the podcast. I'm from Eastern Ohio. We don't say it like that here. I apologize. Um, and we always like to get started with your origin story, so I know that you have a really fascinating one. So why don't you let us know, like what you were doing before you came into tech and what the journey was like to getting your first job.

Reda: 05:05

Yeah, sure. Uh, I was in the marine mechanics field, so like, uh, I used to go for in the fishing ships. Uh, but I didn't really like, Uh, start working. I just had training there, but like my education was focused on that, on the ma marine mechanics. Uh, so during my, um, during my gradation, the, the pandemic hit, so, yeah, uh, it hit When I, when I was preparing for my final projects for the graduation, uh, my final project was kinda like, Related to programming? Not really, but I had some parts of the pro programming in it. It was kinda like, uh, a black box to me. Uh, I didn't really like, um, I can say this, I was, wasn't really working on the programming part, but I was curious about it. So I had, I was doing some, um, Uh, like simulation with matlab. I don't know if you've ever heard of that. It's like a software for simulation, but it, it has some stuff like with programming in it, but I, I, I didn't really touch it. I was just copy paste the code there or with it Also, I had some, uh, some classes like in the. Some classes back in college related to basic algorithms and um, and I, if I remember good c plus plus. And I really like them. So from there, it started like my, my passion too, and like my interest in programming. So after graduation, the, I, I, I hadn't really a lot to do because the pandemic, I'm stuck at home. There's nothing I can do. So I started like searching about these things that it was like just a black box for me. Uh, I started with machine learning, which is. Kinda like weird. It's, I don't know, I was just looking for something to start with, you know? And, uh, one course on Coursera has matlab and also like the stuff, so I just started with machine learning. Uh, after that, um, machine learning, like, uh, in that course they were using matlab, but they, after finishing the course, they said that like, Python is much better. And if you wanna like, learn more about this stuff, you should like, uh, go with, uh, with Python. So I started Python after machine learning, even though I didn't really do anything with machine learning. It was just like, out of curiosity, just like. How things work. Uh, I started that course on like, Python for everybody on Coursera. It was really good. And, uh, the teacher is really like, amazing. The most, like, uh, it's, it's the, I can't remember the, the name. I think Dr. Chuck, I can't remember the name Anyway. Uh, but the course is uh, like Python for everybody. It was really amazing and. But after I finished that course, I really didn't know what to do with it. So I have the knowledge, I have the basic knowledge, but I have no idea what to do with it because like Python is more for backend and it wasn't any visual. Like feedback for me and they're more visual, like a visual person. So I started like to search for something like that, has, uh, more interactivity. So I do something and they see the results in front of me. So more like a visual feedback as I said. Yeah. And during my search, uh, I was mainly searching for free stuff because, uh, I, I wasn't working, I was totally relying on my parents. So, yeah. And, um, uh, I found frequent camp, so frequent camp, and from there, the, like, the real journey started. So the, just like the first challenge in frequent camp, you just do like, um, Uh, like small challenge and you see the result in front of you like in the same moment, and that was amazing. It was like, oh, wow, I, I did something. You know, even though I spent maybe three months on the, on the specialization of Python, I never felt the same when I, when I saw the results in front of me. Like in, in the same moment. Yeah. So I finished frequent camp. And after that I just was, uh, yeah, I was just like building projects. Uh, until I got into the CoLab lab and after the CoLab lab, I got like my job directly after that. Like after finishing the CoLab lab? Yeah.

Bekah: 10:09

Awesome. Thanks so much. It's such an interesting story to hear that and um, that process of where you were in university and what brought you to here. I'm curious, what kind of projects were you working on in between the end of Free Code Camp and Collab Lab?

Reda: 10:26

Yeah. Uh, I, I was mainly doing like the, the frequent camp projects because, uh, the, the problem was in the, in frequent camp, it's not a problem, but it's just more of like, uh, the hard part on frequent camp is all the learning is, uh, It is text based, you know. So it was kind of like hard to understand some parts. So I was like going to look on YouTube and on different blog posts and so on, and like keep, like revising what I was doing before. And then I back to the, to the projects on the frequent camp. So I did the projects on Free boot camp and then I was looking for, uh, like projects on YouTube, projects on, you know, but, but that's the. That's tutorial hell. So, yeah. Uh, it was pretty much hard to get out of it. It's, uh, the hardest part was, uh, the hardest part was when you just look at the screen and you don't know, like from where to start, but the built end projects in frequent camp where pretty much like they, they give you the. What you have to do, you know, like steps they don't give you like what you have to do, but what's you are supposed to do. So like the, the steps of the, the process. So my projects mainly were frequent camp projects, plus some YouTube tutorials and so on. And then, uh, I was like trying to improve the, the projects I worked on. So that's what I was doing. I was like, uh, going in some areas that I didn't touch during frequent camp, like testing, accessibility and so on. Accessibility was covered in frequent camp, but testing wasn't. And I also was feeling like the gaps because, uh, uh, I, I did, you can say it's one of my mistakes when I was learning is the, that I was trying to be fast to be like, Just finish this, finish this, finish this, and go on. And that like left like some gaps in the fundamentals. So yeah, projects will help you fill out that kind of gaps. I think I didn't really answer your question, but uh, yeah.

Bekah: 12:51

I think you definitely answered the question, and I think, um, that's really important, that idea of going through too fast and having those learning gaps. And, um, I think that I also, I went to bootcamp and it took me a year, but I, you know, I was working at a slower pace and. I still think it was a little bit too fast for me too, and I did. I had done a full stack program after doing a portion of free code camp, and there was just so much material to get through in that time period, so, But I wondered, I was like, ready to move on to the next phase of my life. Right? Like ready to get a job. And I, I remember thinking afterwards like, oh, once I get done with this, it's gonna be easy. And like, I don't know why I thought that, but then you start your first job, you're like, oh, that was the easy part. And now I've hit the hard part. And I don't know if that resonates with you or your ex. Experience in collab lab, maybe filled in some of those gaps and helped with that, but I'm curious if, if you had any of that experience too.

Reda: 13:54

Yeah. Uh, I learned a lot, like mainly I learned how to collaborate because being a soft developer are working by yourself. Like 100% by yourself. So you don't know how to use like, not really how to use GitHub, but how to use some futures of GitHub. So you don't know how to open a polar request. You don't know how to fix conflicts. You don't know how you, yeah, you got me. So, yeah, actually like the Virtual Coffee, like, uh, Octoberfest challenge already helps me with GitHub like. I got familiar with GitHub a little bit and I make some contribution, but it's different on the CoLab lab because you are working, like for over two months you are collaborating with three people and you have mentors also, like they are helping you

Bekah: 14:50

what you said also really resonated with me because, uh, I went to a bootcamp, but it was self-paced, so I wasn't working with other people either. And I remember, um, so for anybody that doesn't know, Dan was the first person to hire me out of bootcamp. And we were like going through all of this stuff. And actually it was four years ago, I think I started. July 1st. Um, anyway, um, side, side note. Um, but it, I remember he, he was walking me through it. He was like, yeah, you just worked through the issue and then when you're done, you create a pool request. And I was like, okay. And I know what a pool request is. I've done that once or twice, but like now I'm like, okay, that seems like something that's really basic. But even in bootcamp, I was working on my own projects and so I wasn't making pool requests. I. I once, so when I built my first website, it was, uh, my blogs. Okay. And so I'm writing these blogs, but I didn't even know that you could run it locally. And so I was just like pushing everything live and then looking at it, seeing what worked and what didn't. And then like recommitting, I actually all that commit history is still there. So anybody can go and, and see what. What that process was like. It, it was a lot of like the basics, what, what I would see now as basics of writing, commit messages, um, committing frequently, running things locally to test it before it goes live and pool requests, like none of that stuff was natural to me after that experience or really emphasized as part of the process. And you were talking about free code camp because you're not really making pool requests there and. Even when I did the projects, I was doing them in code pen and, and so there's not branches or any concept of that kind of stuff, and that's integral to being able to work as part of a team.

Reda: 16:43

Yeah. I, I have this funny, like the same issue. It's funny because, uh, I was working most of my projects like in frequent camp at first, like on. So, uh, after like the first time I wanted to like, uh, do my project locally, I didn't know how to do it. So, yeah, that's also part of like, feeling gap. It's, it's the very, very of the basics, but it's, uh, you, uh, it's, it's hard when you're a self study. You just don't know where to go. It's, uh, like you, you don't have a plan, you know? Uh, frequent camp make it easier. Uh, but still there, there are some gaps. There are some gaps that you just, uh, don't know. Like you, you don't even know them to fix them, you know? But Yeah. But when you are like, uh, interaction with other people. So here it comes, the rules of communities and, um, CoLab lab, Virtual Coffee. Uh, when you're interacting with people, you see their problems, you see what they are doing, and you're learning from them, and you got some guidance.

Bekah: 17:53

Yeah, I feel like I also formed some bad habits during that time period because I was just working by myself, and so I didn't know that there were other ways of doing things, so, Um, and that was also something that I had to kind of navigate and work through, and I don't know if you had that experience as well, so.

Reda: 18:11

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The same here. Uh, it was a lot of things that you do. For example, I, I didn't even know that you can fork. You know, so I was like, if I wanted to do something with her, I would just try to push directly to it. It doesn't matter if, if it's mine or if it's someone's projects. So, yeah. Yeah. It, it, it also like, uh, when you are coding, uh, you don't know if what you are doing is the right way, you know, or if it's the best way and so on.

Dan: 18:45

Totally. I, there's so many valuable aspects of having, you know, working together on a team with some people, uh, even if you're, or, or just having extra eyes on it. Right, right. Like, like you were saying, you, you just don't know. You can hope that you, whatever you're doing is the best way, you know, but, um, having, having extra people, it's just always so valuable. Um, and as far as, you know, uh, some of the open source stuff, you know, like forking, right? Like I have been working on, on GitHub in my. Like small team for work for years before I ever forked any repositories, right? Because if you're on, if you're in an organization you don't need necessarily to fork, you know, create your own forks, you, you, you just create branches and do that stuff. So I was comfortable with that, but I had not, not like ever done, um, that whole flow right, until honestly, until. I mean, I think I'd done it a little bit before Virtual Coffee, but uh, really, you know, actually understood it much better once we got into Virtual Coffee and started doing some of those open source contributions. And yeah, there's just, there's just, uh, when you're, when you're by yourself as a solo person, it can be fun and it can be interesting. But, uh, yeah, I always had that sense. I'm sure there's something missing. I'm sure there's some, you know, some pieces that I'm, I'm not seeing or, or whatever. And it's, it's just so nice to be able to have, um, other people are like hanging around and, and, and, you know, working together, uh, on things.

Reda: 20:03

Yeah, I think that the first repo I for was original coffee like repo. Yeah.

Dan: 20:12

a good one.

Bekah: 20:14

and that's one of the reasons why our documentation for Virtual Coffee, um, to contribute is very thorough. Like maybe it's a little bit too thorough, I'm not sure, but because a lot of the people that are contributing are in the same situation that we have both been in where. We don't have that experience of forking or what is a commit? How do you create a branch? And just to make sure that we're able to support those people as part of that process and decrease the friction for people to be able to contribute, I think is really important. Um, and, and the same thing goes for people. Um, who have been working for years, but like Dan said, they, they don't have to fork anything. I just taught an intro to open source workshop a couple of weeks ago and I had to talk about forking a repository. And so I like went through and I practiced because I honestly don't know when the last time I had to fork a repository was. Um, and, and it is those little things that become really important. Um, And so I wanted to know, uh, this is like my very longwinded way of saying, you talked about this open source experience that you had and you participated October. You're, you're rocking your octoberfest dirt today, um, which is awesome. Um, but can you talk a little bit about where that was at in your journey and what kinds of things that you were able to accomplish during that hack Tober Fest.

Reda: 21:37

Yeah, sure. Uh, it's, uh, it's actually was like after finishing like frequent camp. It's, uh, I, I was in a, okay, this is like, uh, Just like, uh, side story. It's not like really answering the question. So the, I I was pretty much desperate after finishing frequent camp. Uh, I had H G M L, CSS Knowledge, basic Knowledge. I had JavaScript knowledge, but I didn't know how to connect. Like between them. I, I had no idea how, okay, there is HTML says there is JavaScript, but I had no idea how to use both of them. And, uh, on frequent Canvas it wasn't there anything. Also, you know, so, uh, after JavaScript there is directly react, uh, actually front end libraries. So I, I was lost. I was totally lost. I was desperate. And at that moment I was actually thinking to give up because, uh, You know, uh, imposter syndrome. I was thinking that I'm low and I don't know how to do things. So I, I was thinking maybe like, it's not for me, you know, even though it has nothing to do with me, I just like something, you know, there is something missing and I don't know about it. So I posted in the frequent camp Forum about it. So I, I said, I, I literally said like, uh, I am done. I'm about to give up and, uh, I don't know what to do next. I have no idea. And people there were very supportive. You know, they, thanks for them by the way. They were, they were very supportive. Uh, and they told me like, you just need this, the, the document objects model done so you can like, uh, for manipulating like the HTML documents and the browser document and so on. So, uh, And why I'm telling you this story is because at that same trade, uh, Jessica told me about Virtual Coffee. And when I joined Virtual Coffee after that, directly, like you were doing the October f uh, the Octoberfest, uh, like challenge. And from there I got some energy. Yeah. Uh, I, I, I, I did something and like I was, yeah, I'm, I'm able to do this. I can do this. Uh, so. Back to the Octoberfest story. Well, yeah. So for Octoberfest, I had, uh, I had a mentor assigned, uh, Justin. Uh, he was pretty much helpful. He told, like, he told me a lot of stuff about, uh, like, uh, comments, how to fork, how to set up a stream. Just lots of information. I don't remember that. I was like, Okay. This is, this is exciting, you know, exciting and the same time scary. Oh, I didn't know all of that. I didn't know anything. So, yeah, uh, he was like, uh, he taught me all of that stuff and like, give me some resources to, to search for, uh, open source projects. Uh, but the hardest part about that is finding issues. That's was the Yeah, and that's an, that's another thing. So when you don't find issues or you, there, there is, there are issues, but the most of them you don't like, you don't know how to do them. So I, I, I got like, uh, frustrated again. So I don't like it's, uh, you think that's, it's you who don't know anything, but actually the. Uh, the tech industry is pretty, like, much bored. You know, there, there are a lot of stocks, there are a lot of things that you don't know, of course. Uh, so, um, yeah, after that I was like searching for things. That's, I know, I know how to do. Uh, so I was searching for some issues. I found like some, like small projects there, they were, maybe they were also learners. They weren't like, like a big, um, companies or anything. Maybe they were also learners or something like that. Uh, so, uh, I, uh, I found this vault project. Like people that own that small projects. And I worked on small issues, for example, adding local storage to, uh, to do up, it was something out of my comfort zone, but also like, uh, I know I, I, I know that I can do it, you know? Uh, so I did some of those issues and I also did one maybe for Virtual Coffee or two. I can't remember. Yeah, but that actually boost my, my like self-confidence, you know, I, I can do stuff and, and, and that's what I was lucky in before when I was just by myself. Like every time, um, every time I don't know how to do something or I'm blaming myself. And, and that was like, uh, the darkest point. Yeah.

Dan: 26:53

I think, uh, any developer who's been developing for. An amount of time has gone through those, those, those times. I know I have a bunch of times over my career and I, I thi I mean, I'm glad, I just wanna say thank you for sharing that because it's, it's, it's good for people to hear because, uh, especially when you are like, like a lot of us are at the beginning kind of by yourselves and on your own. It can be hard to know that that sort of thing is pretty common. I feel like that feeling of, of, I don't know how to do this. I don't know how to do anything, you know, um, is un. Unfortunately, I, I guess, uh, part of this, part of this like world, uh, as far as I can tell, and from my own experience and my experience of, um, most of my friends, it, it's like you just come across those those times, you know? And I think it's a sign, honestly. It's a sign that you're pushing yourself, you know, and trying to learn more. And I think it's in general a good sign, although it's not ever fun. When you're in the middle of it, uh, I think it's, I think it's a good sign because it means you're, you're, um, you know, you're learning, right? And you're trying things that you don't know necessarily how to do at the beginning. Um, and that's, that's something that, that by myself, I've, I've run into as well as I realized that I'm just like, have been very comfortable for a long time, you know, and just doing the same things. And some of it is a little bit boring, but. Like, there's a little bit of boredom that sits in, but it's mostly just this sense. Again, it's that sense, you know, that you were talking about where you know that there's something out there that you probably could be doing better or probably could be doing differently or, uh, anything like that. And it, and for me, it kind of creeps up on me. Um, But then you, once you start like stretching out again, you are risk run, the risk of running into those feelings again. So it's, it's a never ending cycle, you know? But, uh, I think it's a healthy one, uh, in general. Um, and I think it sounds like the ways that you've gotten through it are good in healthy ways, you know, to do it. Um, you know, finding communities and finding people to work with and, um, everything like that.

Reda: 28:53

Fi finding inspiration also, like, uh, there are some people in communities like that. They, they just inspire you and you wanna like, be like them, you know? Uh, that keeps you like to, to push yourself like harder and just to not give up. Yep.

Dan: 29:08

Yeah, absolutely.

Bekah: 29:11

Okay. So I wanna move forward just a little bit on this journey, cuz I know that there's, um, okay, so you did free code camp, you did collab lab, and then you're interviewing for jobs. At what point did you decide, I'm ready to interview for a role, and then what, what did that journey look like?

Reda: 29:30

Yeah. Uh, well, I would, if I, if I wa, if I didn't join virtual Coffee again, I would never apply for jobs. I think I remember my first, uh, my first like coffee shop was, uh, was about my, I put the question about, uh, I asked a question about, uh, this, about when you are ready to apply for jobs, and someone told me yesterday, And, and yeah. And, and I, I that clicked, you know, so you, you just need to apply. You will never fail already. It's, again, I imposter syndrome again. Uh, you will never fail that you're ready. You will never fail that you know enough to apply for job. So, yeah. Uh, I think after. After like free boot camp directly, like, um, not directly, but after finishing some React projects, after I had some React knowledge, I started applying for jobs. Uh, that's also as a pretty much hard, it was like the, the worst period I think, uh, again, with frustration and, uh, whenever you get, uh, a rejection, I blame myself. I take it personally, you know? Uh, Yeah. So whenever I, I get reject, I, I just like, uh, drop everything for two days, two, three days. I just drop everything and do nothing because it was like hard on me, you know? Uh, because, uh, you, you kinda, you don't know if the part you choose is correct, you know, there is this, this, this doubt about will you ever, will you ever be able to do it, you know? Uh, there is also like the, the, the society like oppression. You know, you are, you are like, uh, without a job. You, you studied and you are doing nothing. It's not nothing. You are like, you are actually like studying another thing. But what there is always that question, what if I failed? You know? And rejections always remind me of, uh, of failing, you know, of the end. If. If, maybe if, uh, if, if it wasn't like the, the right part, if, uh, all what I was doing is just how I can say it. Yeah. I guess you got me.

Bekah: 31:58

Oh. I definitely get that and I even when I was laid off earlier this year, It was such a weird space to be in. I'd never been laid off before and I was like, I don't know, maybe I should just not be in tech. Like maybe this isn't for me. You know? And, um, it really messes with your head. I think when you start to second guess yourself and, and you feel that rejection in some way, whether or not, you know, I went through layoffs. They said it was restructuring or whatever. Uh, so there was nothing that implied like, You did a bad job, so you got fired, right? Um, or maybe the pandemic hits and you lose your job for a little while. But, um, it, no matter what, all of those things still feel, they don't feel good and they make you question like, is this the right place for me? And so can you talk a little bit more about how you've navigated those frustrations? Cause I know it's really hard out there for job seekers now, especially for folks looking for their first job in tech.

Reda: 33:02

Yeah, sure. Uh, I mainly was like, uh, taking breast, as I said before, like I. If, I don't know if this is, if this is really the good way to go, but, uh, I was doing that, I was taking rest or so for a day, for two days. I just don't do anything just to, to get to myself, you know, because, uh, trying to learn new things or trying to do. Like, or trying to like, uh, prepare your resume or your cover letter or whatever you are doing to, for the job hunting while you are in a bad state of mind when you're like, so frustrating, it would just make it worse, you know? Uh, and I even did experience that. So for example, if I got a rejection and I try to, uh, apply for another job like the same day or something like that, I, I find myself for. Uh, okay. For, for example, if I try to, to apply to, to a job, I, I will just like look and they will say, okay, I am unqualified, you know, uh, I'm not good for, for applying for this. So that rejection will affect you. So what I was doing is just like resting a little bit, maybe try to focus on learning new things. Uh, yeah, that, that's it mainly. And, um, yeah. I will try to come up with something else. I can't, I can't think of any right now.

Bekah: 34:30

I love that. I think that it can be really hard to take a rest, and then what you do is just burn yourself out during the job search and. That idea of learning something new I think is really good because you also start to feel like stagnant when all you're doing is applying for jobs. And so you're not learning and there's, I don't wanna say a balance cuz I don't know that there can be balance when you're interviewing for a role. But, um, It helps to keep your morale up, I think a little bit when you can see like, Hey, I did this thing today and now I know something new versus, I did these interviews today and I didn't get a job, which feels bad. So you gotta like fill up that win bucket a little bit somehow. And it's often not going to be through interviewing.

Reda: 35:12

Yeah. Uh, I was also like, uh, in the meanwhile like preparing for quizzes for interview questions. Uh, so it was, I think that the hardest part in this part of the journey is to, to, as you said, is to have a balance between learning and applying for roles and like studying for interviews. it's, It's It's just a mess. But, uh, uh, one thing also that helps me is the community again. So being inside the community, you see that there are a lot of people like, you know, and the moment they got the, their first job or they got the anyway, when, when, when they, when they get their, like the, their dream job or whatever. It's, it's like kind of a motivation to you. So again, Finding, uh, community is like, was key.

Bekah: 36:14

Yeah, I think that's so important. And so how did you end up landing the job that you're currently at now?

Reda: 36:21

Yeah. I, I consider myself like lucky, I guess. Uh, so I, I didn't actually apply for the job I am currently at right now, so they find me to GitHub. They like, uh, they put like a Q research there, so you know, GitHub have this, this Q research, you know, so you can put QEs and you can like search for, for some criteria, you know, and uh, I was, yeah, I can, I was lucky that I was part of those people. Uh, so they contact me on LinkedIn. Uh, sorry. I I was lucky that I was part of the result of the search. Yeah. So, uh, they contact me like on LinkedIn and they said, hi, uh, we find your profile interest and we would like to talk about the, yeah. So I said, okay, we can talk. We, we like schedule like, uh, a meeting. I thought it was just a meeting to talk about like how. Things will go, you know, what's they're looking for, what they are, and so on. But it turns out like it's an interview and yeah, but it was pretty much smooth. They, they were like cool people. It was pretty much smooth because, uh, uh, because I, uh, when I asked how, like they choose me, actually they said like they, they, they went through the code. Actually, you know, they went through my code, they went through my. Projects. So I think that the process of hiring is, is the main cause why I I am where I am right now. Yeah. So I, it's may not be the, the case for, for everyone, uh, but just put yourself out there, you know, if you have any projects, even if they are small or if they are like, Really not that interesting. I don't wanna say that they're not interesting, but just put your projects out there, put them on Twitter, GitHub everywhere. And, uh, yeah, that's it. So anyway, sorry. I,

Bekah: 38:38

Don't be

Reda: 38:38

uh, yeah. Uh, so after the anti interview, I, they actually like, uh, just sends me the, the offer. Yeah.

Bekah: 38:47

Wow.

Reda: 38:48

Yeah, it was pretty, so they, it was kinda like the, the moment they contact me, they already made their mind that they're gonna hire me. So it was just about, uh, if I say yes or no, so yeah.

Bekah: 39:02

That's awesome. Uh, is it a company in your country?

Reda: 39:06

Yeah, it's in my country, but it's remote. It's 100% remote. So yeah, it was actually too good to be true, so,

Bekah: 39:16

I almost like, like the idea of a surprise interview, cuz then you're not really nervous if you just think that you're going in to talk to them and then they're like, oh, surprise interview. And you're like, well, I didn't have the last three days.

Reda: 39:28

Yeah, yeah. But, but it, it wasn't any hard, you know, it was more of a discussion than an interview, you know, but it, it, it was like the first and final. So it's, it was pretty much good because I had previously, I had some pretty much bad experience with going through. Three interviews and in the end getting like rejected. So yeah.

Bekah: 39:52

Do you, did you find, like living in Morocco, that the job search was even more challenging? Uh, if you were looking for remote work?

Reda: 40:00

Uh, it was more challenging for me because, uh, I didn't have, I didn't have a degree, you know, I didn't have a degree in computer science. I have a degree in my mechanics, but not in computer science. And in Morocco, it's, uh, it's kinda, I, I wasn't even applying for jobs in Morocco because I thought it's, it's, uh, impossible for me to get a job here. As most of companies, they are like asking for a degree, you know? And uh, the funny thing is, during my interview with, uh, my current company, the first thing I said is, I don't have a degree just for information. I don't have a degree in computer science. Uh, but practically they said like, um, what matter is talent and not like a piece of paper. And that was like, uh, e even if I didn't, Like get in the the company. That was a boost for me. Yeah.

Bekah: 40:59

That's awesome.

Dan: 41:00

It's good to hear. I mean, that, that, that aligns, I think with a lot of the people that I end up, you know, enjoying working for. Right. Uh, the, the degrees are, um, I don't know, it's, it almost seems silly sometimes. I mean, not that getting a degree is silly, but like the idea that, uh, in our field, A degree after four years, I feel like is going to be so out of date to be almost, I not useless. Obviously, you like in college, I think the important thing is to like, learn how to learn, right? That's, that's more, you know, but at the same time, uh, somebody with a, a certain amount of experience is going to have the same, if not a better, you know, uh, handle on all that stuff than

Reda: 41:38

Yeah. Yeah,

Dan: 41:39

went to college, you know?

Reda: 41:40

that's, uh, that's a good point because, uh, that current company, like, they told me that they interview like, uh, People with degrees and like engineers, you know, like before me. But the, the only difference is I had projects I had, like I know how to search for information and how I know how to learn by myself. Yeah. And like one of the plus for me is that, say it was a self thought developer, so they know like they they won't need, uh, it, it's just a sign that you can learn by, by yourself, you know?

Dan: 42:20

Yeah, a hundred percent. Uh, with that, I mean, that, that's always, that's always gonna be a, a point in your favor in my book. Um, just, I mean, as a self-taught developer myself, you know, um, I mean, but I know, I understand like what the struggles are and like how much it takes to continue through that, um, process, you know, and that career. And so I, that that's, I was just glad to hear that, you know, you found a place that, that respects that

Reda: 42:44

Thank

Dan: 42:44

it, it's not always, you know, it's, it's, you're not, not everybody's gonna feel the same way and, um, I don't know. It's nice to hear when, when that sort of thing works out well, like it has in your case.

Reda: 42:55

Yeah.

Bekah: 42:57

Well rta, we wanna thank you for being here with us today. Are there any last words of advice that you have for our listeners about their job search or being self-taught?

Reda: 43:08

Yeah. Uh, thanks for having me. And, uh, I know like the, the situation in the us, I don't know if it's in old words, but it's pretty much tough with the, with all the layers happening, the layoffs happening. So yeah, say stay strong and you can do it. Yeah.

Dan: 43:32

All right, well, cool. Well thank you Reda for joining us so much and um, yeah, we will catch everybody next week. All right, thanks Reda.

Bekah: 43:41

Bye.

Reda: 43:42

thank you.

Dan: 43:46

Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Virtual Coffee Podcast. This episode was produced by Dan Ott and Bekah Hawrot Weigel, and edited by Ashley Mulder. If you have questions or comments, you can hit us up on Twitter @VirtualCoffeeIO or email us at podcast@virtualcoffee.io. You can find the show notes, sign up for the newsletter, buy some VC merch, and check out all of our other resources on our website, virtualcoffee.io. If you're interested in sponsoring virtual Coffee, you can find out more information on our website at virtualcoffee.io/sponsorship. Please subscribe to our podcast and be sure to leave us a review. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next week.

The Virtual Coffee Podcast is produced by Dan Ott and Bekah Hawrot Weigel and edited by Dan Ott.